Recently, Earth & Altar launched The Road to Nicea, a limited-run podcast detailing the events leading up to the formation of the Nicene Creed and Trinitarian orthodoxy. I recently caught up with the author, Ben Wyatt, to chat with him about the podcast. 

1. Why choose the title Road to Nicea?

The title comes from an adult forum series on the Nicene Creed that I developed as an associate. I wanted something that conveyed both a sense of destination and journey, because both are involved in this story. We often think of the Nicene Creed as a static artifact, especially those of us who say it in church every week. But the fact is that the Trinitarian theology behind it had been developing for a long time – and the creed itself is developed in a simmering cauldron of political change and theological conflict that was anything but static! So the goal of the podcast is to tell the story of the road to Nicea – not just the creed itself, but all the conflicts, insights, and just plain weirdness that shaped it. 

2. Tell me about yourself - what connects you with this story?

I’ve always been interested in church doctrine, and the Trinity always seemed like particularly puzzling. In what way is God one, and in what way three? And what practical difference does it make? When I became a priest I was regularly asked how the Trinity could be true, or whether Jesus was really fully divine.

When I’m confronted with a problem I can’t understand, I try to think about it historically – how did the problem arise, and what made certain solutions satisfying (or unsatisfying) to those who first formulated them? In many ways that’s the question this podcast will answer – and hopefully give us some help with our present-day puzzlements as well! 

3. If you could meet anyone from the Road to Nicea, who would it be and why?

This is such a hard question! Basil the Great is probably the most compelling person to meet in person – he was a bishop and seems to have really loved the connection and persuasion that came with his role. He could stand toe-to-toe with emperors and come out the victor, and his sermons are still compelling in the modern day. His younger brother, Gregory of Nyssa, is the more interesting thinker of the two and more important in my own theological development. But Gregory may not have been a great dinner guest. He was quieter by temperament and more or less got peer pressured into the bishopric by his brother. Athanasius’ political career was ill-starred, and reading his life is kind of like watching reality TV. I mean, he gets accused of murder – and defends himself by finding the guy he supposedly murdered and bringing him (still very much alive) to court as a witness! So he would have been the most fun to watch from a distance, but I think I would have died from secondhand embarrassment after a day with him. So I’m going to stick with my first answer and say Basil. 

4. What episode/plot point are you most excited about?

Remember when I said that Athanasius’s political career was ill-starred? Yeah, he manages to get exiled from his home city five times over the course of his life. His life pretty well encapsulates the “middle years” of the Nicene controversy and the way in which power brokers bounced back and forth between pro- and anti-Nicene positions. I can’t wait to share that with my listeners – especially the part where you can see Athanasius’s patience for these exiles wane in real time. Let’s just say Athanasius is not one to suffer the slings of fortune quietly. 

5. Who should listen to this podcast?

Anyone who is interested in the doctrine of the Trinity and how we arrived at it. Also anyone who finds ancient history interesting. 

So often we reduce history to just a few short sentences in a confirmation class – maybe throw in a Greek word like homoousios if they are feeling fancy – or assume that it’s nothing more than a bunch of stuffy white men arguing with each other. One of the things I love about the story of the Nicene Creed is that almost none of that is true. Almost none of the key players would be described as “white” by today’s standards, and while there is plenty of arguing going on, it happens over decades of richly textured intellectual evolution. Not to mention that it all happens while Constantine and his descendants are reshaping the Roman Empire as we know it! My goal is to tell the story in all its fulness, because history is more interesting when you get to know the details. So much of what happens is of course set in motion by big historical trends, but so much of it is due to the people involved – messy, contradictory, unpredictable, and glorious people! Anyone who enjoys getting to know people will enjoy this podcast. 

And above all, anyone with a tolerance for bad pastor jokes and niche theological puns should listen to it. 

6. How long will episodes be?

I’m shooting for thirty to forty minutes for the main episodes. Supplemental episodes, which provide additional details not strictly necessary to the plot, are usually a bit shorter than that. 

7. If I wanted to read more about the topic, do you have any book recommendations?

Depending on how deep down the scholarly rabbit hole you want to go, there are a couple of options. For those who want more of the scholarly back-and-forth than I can include in the podcast, R. P. C. Hanson’s The Christian Search for the Doctrine of God is the classic text. If you want an in-depth character study, Rowan Williams’s Arius: Heresy and Tradition is excellent. We are, alas, still waiting on a more accessible history of the events surrounding Nicea to be published. The best place to look for it is in more general histories of the Roman Empire. Constantine: Roman Emperor, Christian Victor is a good start. 

8. What is the most offbeat, strange, or just unexpected story you found while researching this? 

Well Athanasius definitely has the largest stories-to-years-lived ratio of anyone in the plot. But for my money, the oddest story of all is that of Eustathius of Antioch. Eustathius was a vehement pro-Nicene who appears to have managed to get the imperial regime to sour on the Nicene Creed almost before the ink was dry – probably because he insulted the emperor Constantine’s mother at a state dinner. It’s amazing how quickly favor can turn!